Framewalk: SM64's Most Controversial Speedrunning Trick

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  • Kipp Cummings
    Kipp Cummings  2 hours back

    it is playing the game in a way that it wasnt meant to be played... so like most tricks in speed running. It doesnt need a ban

    • Animebryan2
      Animebryan2  10 hours back

      These rules & standards are so hypocritical, ban or restrict something because it wasn't intended by design? Are most speedrunning tricks intended by the original creators? Is sequence breaking intended by developers excluding Metroid games? Was speedrunning itself intended when these games were designed? No!

      • Matthew Rease
        Matthew Rease  10 hours back

        How long until we get a category for those of us playing with the Gravis PC Gamepad? It's got great *analog* controls.

        • The Misunderstood Assassin

          While watching this video, I felt like an odd man out. I had never heard of framewalking until now. 😅

          • Tyler Hull
            Tyler Hull  12 hours back

            What is the official website that users submit records to? New to the scene

            • Simply
              Simply   11 hours back

              https://speedrun.com and for sm64 its https://speedrun.com/sm64 welcome to the scene! hope u enjoy it

          • Nom
            Nom  12 hours back

            As long as everyone has the same timings inside the game (e.g., no faster animations or less slowdown compared to the other versions) I think speedruns are and should be comparable. As long as a person is doing the inputs (e.g., no bots, programmable hardware or macros) there should not be a limit for which controller you use. Just think about what it would mean for every soccer player to have to use the same shoes. The controller is the same. Some people have smaller hands, some may be missing a few fingers, some may just hate N64 controllers with a passion and want a Gamecube controller. Don't forget you cannot simply go out and buy a brand new N64 controller at your local game store if yours has an old analog stick or is even totally broken. Next you ban people playing on CRTs, because they have superior reaction times.

            • Keld Tundraking
              Keld Tundraking  14 hours back

              I don't think it should count as an n64 run if you're using extraneous hardware to change how your controller behaves. This is only different from tool assistance in a matter of degree. The argument that it makes it "easier" seems like an odd defense for the speedrunning community. i think anything not done on official hardware should be disqualified, or given a new category.

              • Simply
                Simply   11 hours back

                are u happy with the conclusion that was announced?

            • Damian9303
              Damian9303  15 hours back

              Are you ReviewBruh?

              • Lugmillord
                Lugmillord  18 hours back

                3:14 I want such an adapter... but they are pretty hard to get where I live.

                • XDShade
                  XDShade  21 hours back

                  Make it another category

                  • Stefan Madethen
                    Stefan Madethen  21 hours back

                    "...with a specific scope that you may pause and read if you like."




                    after deez messages

                    • Beastwolf1
                      Beastwolf1  22 hours back

                      wow you're right. Adding controversy to your title got you a vastly increased amount of views.
                      Your average video has about 300-700 views and then this got 150k+.
                      ... do we blame youtube or people? Firstly I blame myself.

                      • Charles Wolf 4
                        Charles Wolf 4  22 hours back

                        If say, don’t switch out the controllers in middle of play, so if you want to play with the digital controller to get that single trick, you have to play the whole game with the digital controller, that way it may fix the problem since it may be harder to do certain events of the game, and discourage the trick / make the players have to learn certain moves all over again

                        • FrostyBrows
                          FrostyBrows  1 days back

                          ban framewalk fo sho.

                          • lethauntic
                            lethauntic  1 days back

                            Honestly, if it's ok to use a Boxx, or anything like it, then why wouldn't it be ok to re-map a button to analog-up? Because in either case it's about having the right hardware or whatever, right? At that point, sure you could say "no re-mapping", but then that would just lead to more speedrunners buying controllers _like_ the Boxx. In which case it's not _that_ different, because you _are_ still just mashing, right? It might be more annoying to use a second controller, sure, but I feel like that's a bit _too_ specific of a reason to be against re-mapping. But of course, like Simply said, if there _were_ any restrictions placed in any way, then the rules would have to be updated altogether- also, if you ban re-mapping because it makes it too easy, then you'd have to ban third-party controllers as well. Because then you could just use the Boxx for the same effect.
                            As a hypothetical, because I don't know that one exists, what if you had a controller that instead of a proper analog stick it had buttons (imagine the c-buttons, but for the main stick). I don't know if it would cause issues not being able to tip-toe, but it would essentially mean that you could mash analog-up without hardware modifications of any kind, it would just be a strange third-party controller. Just a question I had, because if all controllers are ok, then it would theoretically be fine, despite being very similar to just re-mapping anyways. Assuming that you didn't create the modification yourself, but purchased the third-party controller- though again, who knows if a controller like that exists. There may be some that have a stick with less room to move around, but that's a bit different I'm sure.

                            • TACOPS
                              TACOPS  1 days back

                              I have no clue... Sounds like he was speaking a different language so I don't have an opinion on banning so and so or whatever he was saying.
                              Oof. No Offense to the M64 community, I really just don't play the game.

                              • kyootips
                                kyootips  1 days back

                                ban it.

                                • ThirtyfourEC
                                  ThirtyfourEC  1 days back

                                  I don't know if I got recommendned this video due to enjoying the speedrunning side of speedrunning or hitbox controversy in the fighting game community

                                  • Nathanial Jamieson
                                    Nathanial Jamieson  1 days back

                                    its technically TAS so in that case yes its should obviously be banned. otherwise there is no issue.

                                    • Vortex
                                      Vortex  1 days back

                                      If it beats the game faster...idk why it should be banned?

                                      • RAFAEL MAURICIO MAMANI DELORTI

                                        2:30 where the video fuckin starts

                                        • TF2Blozi
                                          TF2Blozi  2 days back

                                          I love lil simp simp

                                          • Swordlesslunk
                                            Swordlesslunk  2 days back

                                            How about an external hardware% and base game% category designed to make it fair for players who use emulators/adapters and those who wish to play on consoles without any sort of advantage. I for one left ocarina of time behind because of ess adapters and Wii emulators as I felt it destroyed the integrity of speed running as players without the means to buy the "advantages" or the capability to modify their consoles are essentially locked out of high level competition. I was one of the minority members who lost the vote to keep the old rules and felt ostracized when it came to my opinion in the oot community. It was heartbreaking to be cast aside in favor of external advantages and can no longer appreciate the difficulty of super sliding unless I perform it myself without ess adapters or watch outdated runs before the adapters existed.

                                            • The Sun
                                              The Sun  2 days back

                                              The way i see it is if framewalking and using remapping controllers or outright changing the controllers are allowed then why should emulation or virtual consoles be its own thing when in my eyes it is edging the same thing.

                                              • Matthew Wheeler
                                                Matthew Wheeler  2 days back

                                                Can someone give me a more in depth explanation of why people look down on virtual console? Its much more accessible than an N64 with a physical N64 cart and is also the superior version as it pertains to lag, if a game is played in a certain language because the text scrolls faster isn't that kind of the same idea?

                                                • Simply
                                                  Simply   1 days back

                                                  its not that its looked down upon, its just that things like lag frames add a whole entire dimension to the gameplay that is completely wiped on VC. movement isnt as smooth, as well as tradition (which isnt the best explanation, but offers decent support)

                                              • Puncle Gan
                                                Puncle Gan  2 days back

                                                If you are going to restrict console modifications and emulators, then controller modifications should also be restricted. If the game allowed remapping that would be acceptable, but it doesn't. This I would put as no different than adding turbo.

                                                • Grammar Nazi Party
                                                  Grammar Nazi Party  2 days back

                                                  3:50 button is either pressed in or not.


                                                  What about a half press of A? 🤔🤔🤔

                                                  • Qwit
                                                    Qwit  2 days back

                                                    If you're playing Nin64 you should only be able to use the hardware that originally came with at the time.

                                                    • Sarah
                                                      Sarah  2 days back

                                                      There's a good debate to be had here, but the repeated argument that "it's like playing a different version of the game" is silly.
                                                      Mentioning that you know it's not the same is not rhetorically helpful: you're just saying even you don't really believe your argument. You'd be better off not leaning heavily on an argument rather than making it repeatedly and acknowledging that it's weak.

                                                      • Psychs
                                                        Psychs  2 days back

                                                        Just add a new category in these types of conflicts, where the category with the controllers and etc are allowed are called "assisted"

                                                        my personal view on speedrunning is that it should mostly be based on skill, this isnt skill. its a tool assisting you where you dont have that skill

                                                        • Combo Breaker
                                                          Combo Breaker  2 days back

                                                          N 64 recorda should be with the original hardware ONLY. Using something different you can manipulate inputs and do things you re not supposed to

                                                          • Smug Anime Girl
                                                            Smug Anime Girl  2 days back

                                                            Speedrunners: [use all sorts of glitches to complete a game as quickly as possible]
                                                            Also speedrunners: "this glitch is too easy and consistent, and saves too much time, we should ban it"

                                                            Lmao either do a glitchless run, or don't complain about game breaking glitches (unless they directly warp you to credits)

                                                            • AllRightsRejected
                                                              AllRightsRejected  1 days back

                                                              It's not about the glitches, but HOW those glitches are executed. Break the game as many ways as you want as long as everyone can agree on methods and hardware allowed to be used to break it.

                                                          • Justin Kruger
                                                            Justin Kruger  2 days back

                                                            Holy shit you can use a gamecube controller for the n64 I have waited for this for so long. Where do they sell that adapter?

                                                            • RoboHobo
                                                              RoboHobo  2 days back

                                                              most speed running is retarded anyway since they count real world time and not actual time the game is being play while you control it for example at the end of a sonic stage it stops you and counts the rings you have so by their standards if i have less rings i will be on that screen for less time making my run better its retarded

                                                              • Em D.
                                                                Em D.  2 days back

                                                                Speed running and competitive game communities in general seem to struggle with things like this a great deal. I feel this is largely because there is no philosophical foundation that the community has established and agreed upon. The end result is some really odd rules that are inconsistent with each other. The solution here is not to ask the community whether or not they should allow certain tricks. You will have a never-ending deluge of issues to vote on that never ends. Instead, you have to ask a question:

                                                                "What skills do we want to measure?"


                                                                If you start at that question, you get a lot pillars to stand on that can automatically resolve these kinds of issues. If you want to measure the ability to complete the game as quickly as possible, then that results in one decision. If you want to measure the ability to complete the game within the confines that would be defined by the native hardware, that result in a different decision.

                                                                I really encourage communities to start by answering that question. It serves as a strong guiding light toward issues like this when new strategies that seem borderline are found, and prevents certain ideas from getting to entrenched because 'that's the way it's always been' (I'm looking at you Melee community...). Create some pillars to help guide your community and decisions like this become a lot easier.

                                                                • Derpy Pedro
                                                                  Derpy Pedro  2 days back

                                                                  Put the individual with best time using frame walking and the individual with best time without using frame walking in a boxing ring. Winner gets to pick

                                                                  • Coltz-Pun
                                                                    Coltz-Pun  2 days back

                                                                    What I think: require hand cam for top 100 times and disallow using remapping specifically to do the trick. Not the best but it will also decrease cheating in the top 100

                                                                    • JellyJelly
                                                                      JellyJelly  2 days back

                                                                      sm64 is faster then sonic adventure

                                                                      111111111111111111111111111111111WOAH11111111111111111111111111111

                                                                      • Matias Pereyra
                                                                        Matias Pereyra  2 days back

                                                                        I don't care, tbh, when I think of speedruns I think that they shouldn't be limited by "intended way" as *the* WAY, that just sounds like elitist trying to jerk themselves up, the only exeption would be if the emulator has some type of advantage like: "the emu is weird with layers and I can make an exploit out of that" or something of that sort

                                                                        To clarify: I don't think that emu or original shouldn't even exist, not at all, but they should be secondary lists to the non emu fastest way

                                                                        But again, if you play original (and isn't for the sake of unctionality you should "PLAY ORIGINAL")

                                                                        • NyxTheShield OFFICIAL
                                                                          NyxTheShield OFFICIAL  2 days back

                                                                          Analog > Digital should be valid but having 2 different things to the same action should not.

                                                                          • block hasher
                                                                            block hasher  2 days back

                                                                            how about don't get but hurt if someone beats your precious speed run?

                                                                            • Kalapurka
                                                                              Kalapurka  3 days back

                                                                              The end part of the video was so biased that it tainted the whole objective part of the video, you should added a disclaimer.

                                                                              • Lifuu
                                                                                Lifuu  3 days back

                                                                                Imo a speedrun should be done with the original hardware made by Nintendo. If you're using any other soft- or hardware which isn't officially released by Nintendo then your speedrun time should be seperated. However, if there's a glitch or bug in the original game you are allowed to use it to your advantage.

                                                                                • Katrina Payne
                                                                                  Katrina Payne  3 days back

                                                                                  "This isn't how the game was meant to be played"... said on a Speed Run video.

                                                                                  • DefaultGen
                                                                                    DefaultGen  3 days back

                                                                                    WR runs should be on OG hardware with unmodified controllers. Anything else has an asterisk next to it as far as I’m concerned. This is essentially a turbo button for analog inputs.

                                                                                    • Felipe Choy
                                                                                      Felipe Choy  3 days back

                                                                                      When you will have a collaboration with Summoning Salt??

                                                                                      • Kevin Good
                                                                                        Kevin Good  3 days back

                                                                                        If you’re going as far as playing on the old console itself, EVERYTHING should be kept vanilla. Steroids are banned in professional sports because they provide an unfair advantage, why should this be any different?

                                                                                        • Fuujinryu
                                                                                          Fuujinryu  3 days back

                                                                                          Voice too low, music too loud, especially starting at 11:44.
                                                                                          Seems community will decide. To me, level play field with original hardware and controller is fair. Anything else, unless standardized, looks like a TAS to me.